Changelog #40 – Full-site Editing Rollout, Gutenberg 10.2, and a Fond Farewell to Co-host Mark Uraine

Gutenberg Changelog
Gutenberg Changelog
Changelog #40 - Full-site Editing Rollout, Gutenberg 10.2, and a Fond Farewell to Co-host Mark Uraine

Birgit Pauli-Haack and Mark Uraine discuss a Plan for Full-site Editing Rollout, Gutenberg 10.2 release, and a Fond Farewell and Good Luck to Co-host Mark Uraine.

Show Notes / Transcript

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Show Notes

Full-Site Editing Rollout

Gutenberg 10.2 Release

Global Styles

Block Pattern Transformations

Full-Site Editing

Themes Team updates

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Sponsored by Pauli Systems

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Well, hello, and welcome to our 40th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. In today’s episode, we will talk about full-site editing the rollout plan, Gutenberg 10.2, and we will have to say goodbye and good luck to co-host Mark Uraine. 

I’m Birgit Pauli-Haack curator at the Gutenberg Times. For the last time I’m here with my co-host Mark Uraine, designer, and co-contributor to WordPress. So how are you Mark?

Mark Uraine: Hey, Birgit. Oh, wow, yes. So really good, lately I’ve been doing so wonderful. I have a long weekend planned in the mountains with the family, and it’s like a fitting ending to my time as co-host with you here on the show. I tell you though, I have thoroughly enjoyed this time with you and it’s been so fun. And I really believe that what we’ve done here, Birgit, has contributed to a healthier community where that has more knowledge and information upfront about what’s happening in the WordPress world, especially with the focus of Gutenberg.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And I totally agree, but 40 episodes. Wow. A big thank you to you Mark for everything. Yeah. I had a phenomenal time with you and you have been a wonderful friend. Apart from my husband, you were the next person I saw most often in 2020. Every two weeks, I had two hours with you, yeah. So, and I hope we can stay in touch and if you don’t see each other every other week, but still I’m going to miss you for sure. 

So yeah, you’re right. There is a lot of information going out through the Gutenberg Changelog and recently we had some 800, 700 to 800 listeners every week. And that was really cool. And part of it is you.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. I’m going to miss this, I’ll miss you and yeah. It is time.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: It’s a good news, bad news kind of thing. The bad news is you leave. The good news is Greg Ziolkowski will become the new co-host.

Mark Uraine: Yes.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yes. And Greg is a JavaScript developer at Automattic, on loan for the WordPress Gutenberg team since the beginning. And I will introduce him properly during his first show in two weeks with episode 41. So stay tuned here listeners. Yeah. So now we get this out of the way.

Mark Uraine: Greg is going to be fantastic. That guy is so good at everything he does. And very on point. He’s got so much information that he’ll be able to share.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. I’m hoping to tap into that knowledge and getting a little bit deeper into some of the developer relationship, how they can take more advantage of the Gutenberg and the block editor and all the scripts that are out there. So it’s going to be really good. Yeah. All right.

Mark Uraine: Right. It takes us to announcements. So, all right. Let’s dive in.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Back to Gutenberg then.


Mark Uraine: March 9th. A third call for testing in the full-site editing program went out post. It was to encourage you to create a fun 404 page without any code. And so, the deadline for this particular call for testing is March 23rd. To share your findings with the group and on the post, please leave a comment on that. And if you listen to it after, have a look at the site for the summary post, how the call went and what issues were surfaced. And this was Anne that posted this.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yes, I’m really looking forward, because there are not easy ways to actually create a 404 page now. So this is the first piece that lets you get past whatever you were doing before with the yeah, customizer or anything like that. So it’s a really a new feature to do this with a full-site editing. I’m looking forward to that. It’s my weekend. 

And now that WordPress 5.7 was released last week and I know 5.71 is in the works, the core team started planning for the 5.8 version. Josepha Haden Chomphosy published two posts with additional information about that. So the one is full-site editing pre-merge overview with updated timeline for the decision-making on the prototype, the MVP and communication rollout for the merge of full-site editing into the core software. In the follow-up post, Josepha also shared the core team’s early thoughts on 5.8 planning and elaborated on the changes, depending if full-site editing will be merged or not merged in assembling that. The release teams will require different release team.

So in short, the team will decide on April 13 or 27, the go no-go for the merge into core for the 5.8 release in July. Yes. It was moved a month from June to July, and if it will be pushed to 5.9, it will come out in December 2021. 

So by the release of Gutenberg 10.5, that’s scheduled for April 28th, we should know if it’s a go and there are six more weeks to create documentation for end users and tutorials. It’s not a lot of time. But of course we all know what plans happen, as soon as they come to reality they’re going out the window.

Mark Uraine: How’s that team you’ve been building, Birgit, of documentation writers, right?

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it’s spotty how we all find time to do this, but it’s a good team. There is Carolina Nymark is on it who has a website, and volunteers on the theme review team was a rep on the theme review team. And then we have Anne, definitely a big force for the full-site editing documentation and tutorials. 

So I think they should be fine, we’re just going to need to push a little bit and put some deadlines on it. Our documentation team sometimes without that lens and then it never happens, because if it weren’t for the last minute, nothing would get done, right? It’s kind of how the saying goes. 

Yeah, and in preparation of that, Josepha Haden and Matias Ventura will be on the next WP Briefing episode and discuss some of the questions from the community about full-site editing. WP Briefing is a new bi-weekly podcast from the desk of Josepha Hayden Chomphosy. She is the executive director of the WordPress open source project as you all know.

So they are short 10- to 15-minute shows and I’m glad she picking up some of the buzz from the community and what’s at the forefront. And of course full-site editing is on everybody’s mind maybe. Yeah, so these are all the announcements that I have on the general WordPress news.

What Released – Gutenberg 10.2

Mark Uraine: Yeah. And that brings us to then the Gutenberg 10.2 release.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yes.

Mark Uraine: All right. That went out yesterday, March 17th. Let’s see, we’ve got a link of course, to what’s released in the show notes. 

Let’s jump into the Changelog. 


In the features category, there was one item that was listed. The template part block, adding a category panel. So if you’re in a template part block, basically what’s going on is the sidebar on your screen where it normally says post and it has tabs for post or block. Now it’ll say the post will say template part or block, right? So you’ll have those two tabs in your sidebar, which is a nice addition. We talked about last week or in the last episode that they introduced the template tab, I believe, into that sidebar was that a couple episodes ago. So now you can have, now you see the template part identified there.


There were about eight enhancements in this release. I’ll go over a few of them. 

One, adding a check for the button text before rendering the button block. So, what was happening there is if you added a button in the block and went to the front end of your site, but you didn’t add any text, you saw a big square of color there. It didn’t look like a button, there was no text, but it’s still rendered, act as a button. So now it won’t render without you typing some text in, which is a nice enhancement. Yeah, the next one I’ll mention is adding a columns transform ability for the media and text block. So if you’re in the media and text block, oftentimes you see those, that’s always a media item, like an image or video side-by-side with some text. And so it makes perfect sense that there would be some way to transform that into a two-column block, right? So that’s a good addition. There’s a fix for the invert of the gallery gravity, which sounds very futuristic to be honest.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Spacey.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. I’m ready to go on that ride. Let’s, okay.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Some gravity, yeah, I’m for it.

Mark Uraine: Leave it to Joen to come up with some crafty naming for these, right? So what he’s doing is you can, I believe, as you can now switch the gallery. Normally, I believe it aligns to the top. All the images kind of align on the top axis, but some might be longer than other images vertically. You can switch that and have them all aligned along the bottom axis in the grid, allowing the staggering to be at the top of them. Another one is to hide the writing prompt from subsequent empty paragraphs. This has been a big one here. It’s been around since the beginning of Gutenberg. I think, is as soon as you start hitting enter a lot of times in the editor, you start seeing the placeholder ad copy or something, right? Or start writing or click forward slash, right? And all these placeholder text start appearing all over the screen as every time you hit enter.

Well, this little fix or enhancement, I should say, reduces that. So it shows the text the first time you do it, but as all the subsequent enters that you do it doesn’t show anything, which is actually very, very nice. 


There was one new API; let’s go over this. There’s some good amount of text here. Let’s see if I can figure this out. 

For the plugins, add scoping functionality to the plugins API. So the problem was that if you activated a plugin, deactivated it and activated it again, the plugin sidebar would change position. So not only that, but the block editor sidebar would not be the default. So when selecting a block or you wanted to get back to the document setting for your page or posts, you needed to look for it in the top toolbar. Now plugin authors get to scope their plugins and editors overall system. So is now stacking the plug-in sidebars consistently. Sweet. Okay.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of funny that the, yeah, depending on how often you added plugins or not, it would change the order of on top of things, yeah.

Bug Fixes

Mark Uraine: There were 30 bug fixes in this release. We saw a couple regarding reusable blocks. There are a few regarding the buttons block, a couple on the cover block, on the social icons and links block. So really good work, trying to refine those blocks, get those core blocks.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Well, yeah. The reusable block experienced some refactor in the newest version and here what happened was that it crashed. Sometimes the editor. So yeah, they definitely needed to fix that, yeah, to get that. There was some iffy happenings with the reusable blocks, either in the rendering or when you wanted to edit it, it would not edit, right? So there are quite a few things yeah, they’re getting through those issues now.

Mark Uraine: Let’s see, there’s adding theme styles in the site editor. So there was a bug with that. That’s been fixed. I’ve got a few others. I highlighted the border radius support. So they fixed the application of zero radius values. And the gallery block also saw a fix, fixing the crop images setting. So there’s a little issue with cropping the images correctly. So, when you want to crop all the images in the gallery block, they should all conform to a beautiful grid and align appropriately. 


And there was one performance change, reverting the block edit, reverting something about the block edit, avoid memoized block context in favor of use select.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So they’re going to take another stab at it.

Mark Uraine: Yeah.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And until then, it’s done, they took it out. Yeah. Yeah. 


Changelog has about 32 items for the experiments.

Mark Uraine: Yeah.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Most experiments started with global styles. Yeah, there were some updates there for not adding sub-properties when there are no values in the theme.json file. So they cleaned that up. Custom link color wasn’t applying to the buttons, so they’re now making that available. Yeah, it’s little things that have been updated there. For the full-site editing, they added quite a few things to it. They updated a title description icon for the post categories and the template parts had an infinite recursion problem. It’s a fancy way of talking about endless loops. So now you cannot add a template to a template part, while you cannot add the template part to itself. And that was, I think the loop.

Mark Uraine: Oh, inception.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, inception would go deeper and deeper and deeper. And then, Leo DiCaprio comes out, right?

Mark Uraine: Yeah.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: It also now prevents clicking on the tag or category links in the site editor. So when you use the query block to put in post-information and post-meta-information, when you would look at it in the preview, and it will create links to, of course, as you know, to tag archive pages and category archive pages. But if the theme doesn’t have archive page available, yeah, it would go to a dead link. So right now that’s solved by taking off the link and see what happens then. 

Then the query block got a few changes. If there are no results in the query block, now the front end doesn’t display any results either. It removes the exclusion of the current page ID, that was kind of interesting and handling missing categories and tags. That’s certainly something. And then, also allow query block set up with block pattern integration.

There was one of the things that I really found would be missing. Yeah. I’m glad that that is now available. And we get to test it hopefully in a future testing call. The navigation editor and block, get some updates as well. They’ve refactored and simplified the navigation blocks CSS. There’s now an editor menu selection dropdown, and you can also rename the menu. These are all attempts to get on feature parity with the current menu editor so that the navigation screen can make the replacement. And the navigation block is now also can be paired with spacer blocks, which is kind of good. So you get a little bit more control over the distance of things.

Mark Uraine: That reminds me of customizing the finder window and Mac OS. You can customize a little window icons at the top and add a spacer in there, to shift icon. Same sort of thing there. Yeah.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, yeah. Similar thing there, yeah. And then there were some updates also to the group block that is now supporting custom border settings, the button block has now the colors. Yeah. I think we talked about this, has a color support through the block.json. And then, there is a temporary hack to render blocks in the customizer. But as the line item says, it’s temporary and it’s a hack and it’s not going to stay. So, but it’s just going to see how it works and what is missing. Yeah. 

So those, all the experiments, there are a few items in there. There were not 32 items that I talked about, but yeah, kind of explore them for yourself. 


Then there were 15 documentation items. One is that the block variations are now part of the page set about the block API that was missing block variations are now in their own handbook page.

And because it’s definitely one of the underutilized features to add block variations to core blocks. And then there is a, we’ll also have a contributor section in the documentation now, because multiple people add things to it and have a separate list of who is contributing to that. And they added information about the MPM release types and their schedule was just important for those who use Gutenberg editor scripts, also outside of the editor, maybe for a plugin or for their own custom post types to know when the scripts are getting updates. 

And then, the docs also have yeah, updated this log for the block-based theme tutorial. If you run into a 404, make it a funny one. 

Code Quality

So, and then there were a few things that are for code quality. I’m not going to go through them, because 12 items are in there. Thanks for thanks Mark, for putting a number to it. And it’s about removing the subheading block and yeah, just cleaning up the code and yeah, change some around in the block context. 


The tools section has 11 items. This is great just-in-time production, Mr. Uraine. Some scripts.

So the fork jest-environment-puppeteer to use puppeteer-core directly and add a TypeScript support to the linting command. Talking about TypeScript, there’s a whole proposal to add TypeScript to the Gutenberg editor. And I just skimmed it, but I will put a link to it into the show notes, because there’s definitely for all the developers who are interested in Typescripts to do some comments there instead of using JS docs, now using TypeScript natively on top of the JavaScript is not going to go away or Gutenberg will not be automatically … now TypeScript, nothing changes there, but if you want to use TypeScript, you can. 

And then the tools also, they implemented a bot that goes through the issues that have been, I think, older than six months and help with the triage efforts to automate some of the messaging to the original poster or to the person who created the PR or the issue to say, “Okay, is it still an issue? Is there something you still want to work on?” to check back with the person who filed it.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. That’s happening all on GitHub then?

Birgit Pauli-Haack: That’s all on GitHub. Yeah. There was a proposal out that to actually automatically close stale issues if they haven’t been updated after, but that was too abrupt and too unwelcoming, it was felt that it’s a little bit rude to people if it’s automatically closed, but it helps the triage team to at least surface the stale issues, and also at least connect with the original poster on the issue or the PR to check-in with them and making that automation is really very, very helpful to the team.

Mark Uraine: Yeah, we’re at, I see 2,825 open issues in Gutenberg right now. So, that keeps growing and there’s, I know everybody’s so actively trying to keep that number down as much as possible and really looking at stuff. But at times, especially with full-site editing, a lot of people and their time are pulled into exploring things and trying to define how these items get implemented. So issues start piling up during that time.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So, Paal Joachim Romdahl, he’s doing an excellent job on triaging and kind of going through old issues. And they have regular triage meetings on, in the core/editor channel, but he also surfaced quite a few relatively old when I say old, yeah beginning of, end of 2018, beginning of 2019 issues. And see if they are still valid and test them through and then close them in collaboration with the original poster. But I can see that having 2,800 of them is really more than anybody would want to do. That’s on top of how many, that’s 600 and something pull requests that people created that also need to be reviewed. So yeah, it’s a lot going on and it’s thrilling that so many people all want to contribute to it, and the team that kind of triaged that and also have to test it. It’s kind of sometimes a little bit overwhelming, but that’s a good way to at least get some relief of that.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. I agree.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Ping the original version to them.

Mark Uraine: Getting them back there.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So this, well, all the tools I wanted to talk about.


Mark Uraine: Okay, well, we’re getting into our favorite part, the various category, which has grown significantly, I feel here Birgit. We have 52 items in the various category.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And it seems that that’s kind of a continuation of the experiments thing at some point.

Mark Uraine: It is, it is right the way some of these are categorized here. I see a whole section for full-site editing, which makes me think, “Well, why weren’t those just added to full-site editing under experiments,” but got it. So I won’t read out all 52 for y’all, but let’s go through a few. 

The site editor now has a persistent list view, which is very nice. Yeah, right? You used to click on the toolbar at the top and get this little popover, but now you have a slide out or a sheet that comes out and stays while you navigate things, which is great. The template part block adds a variation based on areas. Okay. So template part block, I’m looking this one up.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So if you have a header, you can then add variations of headers into that section.

Mark Uraine: Oh, that’s cool. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I see it. Let’s see components. We saw a bunch of additions. We saw adding a next button and button group. Added a card, a divider, a popover, a tool tip button, a tool tip and shortcut. So a lot of things have been added to the components library. The component system saw some updates as well, adding basic tests for the style system and adding tests for the color utils. 

A few others like the button block removes the link settings panel. So there was a link settings panel and in the sidebar and it got moved to, there was something that got moved into the advanced panel in that sidebar is now I think that’s what this was. I saw some others here, updating the visual design of the sidebar menu. So when you’re in the site editor and you get that way to navigate on the left-hand side of the screen, some of the design has been redesigned there a little bit. So you’re going to see more spacing. It’s much more breathable. The WordPress block styles, saw something here. Let’s see, only load in the editor if a theme opts in. Okay.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, these are the WordPress block styles, yes.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. So you’ve got that theme is to opt in for this adding a new overlaid text icon now, for use with the image block. So if you’re in the image block, you’re going to see a new icon now, that allows you to kind of convert that to an overlay that you can overlay text onto that, which basically is like the cover block.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: You pretty much transform it to a cover block, yeah.

Mark Uraine: Okay. So this is kind of like another way to convert it to a cover block, I guess, because we already have the transforms.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.

Mark Uraine: Okay. Just kind of surfacing it more maybe. Maybe it was probably a popular addition. People want that. Improve the drop cap behavior. Whereas before the drop cap, if you are on like a single line or something, it would kind of get cut off. So they kind of fixed that.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. It would actually create some white space for the minimum height of the drop cap. And if you only have a one line paragraph and then the next paragraph wouldn’t float around it. Yeah. So it would just go and reset. Yeah.

Mark Uraine: So that’s what it, okay.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So, and I like that that’s finally coming to the block editor near you.

Mark Uraine: That’s a nice little bit of polish right there. 

And the last one I want to talk about under various, is the block directory, there’s an update search results list UI, the UI basically in the block directory got a little fine-tuning. I think it’s the review stars are black now, instead of gold, a little tighter interface for the results that show.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: But it also gets a new feature is I don’t know when it was, but a few releases earlier there was a new feature there that … so the problem was that when you search for a block and it found something and you installed it and you searched for it again, then it would only give you those that you already have installed, but you were not able to go back and say, “Oh, I want to see what else is in the directory for that particular keyword.” The new feature has now a button that says, “Okay, there are additional blocks available to install, click here.” And what comes then, that UI has definitely been and changed. Yeah. So you can see the stars that a block had and who built it and a little bit of a description section there.

Mark Uraine: Excellent. Yeah.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. But it doesn’t work as the preview. And I’m really sorry about that, but it just doesn’t work. But no, it doesn’t. It’s very complicated, because there is no screenshot in the plugin that you can kind of pull into somebody’s website. Yeah. So that was the Changelog for Gutenberg 10.2. Well, thank you. It was a lot of stuff in there. A lot of polish and new features, it’s really excellent work with a lot of people.

Mark Uraine: The team is doing really good work. I agree.

What’s in Active Development or Discussed

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So that brings us to the section, what is an active development? Well, what’s discussed to keep updated what’s in the pipeline, so to speak and, or where our listeners could definitely put opinions to it. 

So the first item is global styles and Andre gave an update in the core editors meeting that the newest mock-ups on how the sidebar would look for users to manage overall global styles. And of course we share the issue and there are quite a few changes in there, and it would really be interesting to see what everybody thinks about it. And then there was another issue there that focused on the infrastructure parts of the global styles that is aimed to be shipped in 5.8 independently from the full-site editing UI, even if so the global styles will make it into 5.8 even if a user is not able to use them, but themes could work with that already. So that is definitely something to look forward to and definitely to comment on.

Mark Uraine: Right. That’s a good addition. I’m glad they’re getting that in there. Then there was another discussion around the block pattern transformation, a lot of work being done there. 

I should say Nick Tsekouras was working on this, keeping on the explorations with block pattern integrations, suggesting patterns for transformations. He’s got a proof of concept up there suggesting block patterns in the block, placeholders states. So we kind of talked about this earlier with the query block, Birgit, and let’s see, trying to validate the experimental scope in patterns API. So with all that work going on with the block patterns, Matias is really looking forward to these transforms plus pattern integration. He mentioned that, “Transforms or one of the hidden powers that I’m hopeful, we can surface more and better.” So yeah. Bringing these other patterns into the placeholders is good.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, definitely. And I’m still hoping that a lot of themes kind of create some block patterns for different sections on our website. Yeah. And so, you don’t need blocks, you just need block patterns kind of thing. Yeah. So pricing or feature table could be a block pattern border and a separate block. All right. 

And then in the full-site editing one for discussion. One issue came up was the testing calls when people that were not on the developer team or something, just go through the testing instructions and then try to figure out how this all works. And it was not clear to many of them are they in a site editor, or are they in the block editor, they could, whether one is editing a template or an item of content. Yeah. It was how it’s phrased. And there are quite a few videos in there that are very quick, like six or seven seconds for the various options that could be explored.

They look promising, but I’m also, I think there needs to be a way to have the person that’s the first time using it, giving a little bit of a better way to wrap their head around what is it that I’m actually doing when I’m changing something. And so, I really would urge everybody who is interested in full-site editing to look at that issue and also comment on it and kind of think through what can go wrong pretty much to alert people, the developers on what still needs to be done on that.

Mark Uraine: It almost looks like, I was watching one of the videos posted by James J Costa and he shows how as you click into these regions, they kind of separate out from the rest of the page. So if you click into the content or something, and then you click into the template part, and they start separating from the other parts of the page or the site, it just reminds me of a very like a diagram or a Lego diagram. You start pulling out these blocks as you’re diving into them and they get separated out, a really cool animation, really, really excited to look at, but I don’t know how usable it is for these first-time users who are coming into this to really understand that, it might be very helpful.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Well, another idea is to actually change the color of the interface. You have a blue button that is an update button or a safe button that becomes, or the text kind of changes to a maroon color or something like that when you are in the template parts and back to blue, when you’re in the content part. There are quite a few interesting ideas there that all need to be validated and thought about.

Mark Uraine: So then there’s a one other thing we wanted to talk about was that everyone on the Gutenberg team, especially Paal Joachim Romdahl, Hector Prieto, Matias Ventura, Ari Stathopoulos, like they’re working to identify the issues that need to be resolved for this MVP or this prototype that’s going to get merged into core and in regards to full-site editing. And so, the project board has been created for this on GitHub it is project board 55, and they are continually kind of updating it with newer issues and work that needs to be done that they’re hoping to get in for this.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. This definitely is going to fill up as we get closer to the go, no-go kind of decision. Yeah. What’s in there, can this be solved? Until, yeah, I would say end of May or something like that. Yeah. When you have a July release, then beta is going to be end of May, kind of four weeks, five weeks before or six weeks before, and then you have first beta, second beta, third beta, and then you go to release kind of date and they happen every week. So it’s getting close.

Mark Uraine: Yeah. And with 2,800 issues and 600 PRs, they got their work cut out for them. Why is it that I only see five items in this board right now, five items.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: But there are five in there already. Yeah.

Mark Uraine: But he just started yesterday too. Give him a second.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And all of them, except no, all of them, Paul, Hector, Matias and Ari, they are in Europe. So they’re in a different time zone as well.

Mark Uraine: Yes, that’s true.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yep. Yeah. And that’s the end of the Changelog, I have just before we started recording, I looked at a few things that just came up today and I wanted to point them out to the theme developers, amongst our listeners, and of those who list actually theme in the repository. There are two things that might be of interest to you. 

Alex Shiels posted on Meta, the theme test results added to track tickets, post their built-in end-to-end testing via the site or the track site come in. And it’s only informative and to help the theme developers to detect the JavaScript errors for instance, or possible guideline violations before the theme is submitted. So you can kind of see it and track. 

And another post is from Josepha’s high-level post on the next steps on themes and reviews. Remember there was a previous post that she kind of talks about that, but now there’s next steps from, she had conversations with Matt Mullenweg about the themes team, what this would need. And she outlined where the team is heading and what they need to be successful. And she calls for feedback. 

So if you are a theme developer and those two items will be really interesting for you and please, please contribute your opinion and help everybody out. There are already opinions there. So you’ll get a headstart on that by reading through the posts, right? 

And tha, as always the show notes will be published on the This is episode 40. And if you have questions and suggestions on news you want us to include, send them to that’s

So Mark, this is it, the time to say goodbye. I wish you good luck and hope I’ll see you soon again around the WordPress community.

Mark Uraine: For sure. It’s definitely, they get those Word Camps going again, and this virus passes by hopefully soon. We can all kind of see each other again and have great conversations. 

And again, Birgit, you’ve been the best, you really have. And I just so appreciate you and your friendship, and you’re such an asset for WordPress, for the people, for the community. It was my honor to work with you on this project.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Ditto, as one would say. Yeah, same all back to you and I’m yeah, I wish you all the best. 

And thanks for listening, dear listeners, it’s for me, goodbye, in two weeks then. Thank you, Mark.

Mark Uraine: Bye-bye everybody.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Bye.

Mark Uraine: Bye-bye.

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