Birgit Pauli-Haack and Mark Uraine talk first about WordCamp US and Matt Mullenweg’s State of the Word, as it pertains to Gutenberg and the Block editor and Contributor Day. They have the skinny about the latest Gutenberg release 6.8 and discuss a few very interesting community contributions outside the development team.
- Music: Homer Gaines
- Logo: Mark Uraine
- Editor: Sandy Reed
- Production: Pauli Systems
Show Notes | Transcript
State of the Word
- Justin Tadlock: All Roads Lead to the Block Editor
- Brian Krogsgard: Matt Mullenweg’s State of the Word, 2019
- WordPressTV State of the Word
- WordPress TV the Q & A
- Slides Plugin by Ella van Durpe
Google at WordCamp US
Join the Gutenberg Customization Conversations by Matias Ventura
Marcus Kazmierczak: “Good first issue on Gutenberg”
Jeffrey Caradang’s Tweet: using WordPress components outside the Gutenberg editor
Rik Schennink: Interactions with the Media Library by syncing it with Doka.
Gutenberg Blocks Plugin Quebly by Themeum
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Hello, and welcome to our ninth episode of the Gutenberg Changelog. Today we will talk about WordCamp US and Matt Mullenweg’s State of the Word as it pertains to Gutenberg in the block editor and also about Contributor Day. We have the skinny about the latest Gutenberg release 6.8 from last week, and we will discuss a few very interesting community contributions outside the development team. I am Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times, and I’m here with my co-host; Mark Urane, designer at Automattic and Core contributor to WordPress. Thank you for being here, Mark. It’s always such a pleasure hosting the show with you, and it was a great joy to meet you on Sunday in person for breakfast.
Mark Uraine: It really was. I’m so glad we finally got to meet each other in person and we ate breakfast at Rooster and had a great time and good conversation and then made our way through the cold again back toward WordCamp US.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yes, indeed.
Mark Uraine: I know you spent a lot of time helping out the sponsors there. That whole area was fantastic to work around. I really liked the layout and grabbed as much swag as I could to bring home for the kids and they all love it so….
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Imagine, yeah, the sponsors did really an awesome job to present themselves and be very welcoming to all those 1600 attendees plus, and it’s a big, big, huge thank you to the sponsors because without them, WordCamp US would not be affordable to normal people or beyond $50 on a ticket. This time we also had childcare, and on Sunday we not only had Contributor Day, we also had a kids camp.
Mark Uraine: Kids camp. There’s so much that goes on and it’s $50, US dollars, that is so reasonable, so good that the community just really works together in such a way to provide these for the people of WordPress, the users, the contributors, everybody.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, so when we talk about WordCamp US it was, we all were waiting also for Matt Mullenweg to talk about the last year as well as what’s coming and being on the sponsor team, we were still in the sponsor hall for the breakdown of the show and the booth, and we only made it into the session room when the live Q&A was already on. But overall, what I took from the recaps was that overall there weren’t a whole lot of new announcements from Matt Mullenweg about Gutenberg. He definitely iterated on the Gutenberg phases that he announced last year with phase one being the better editing experience. That’s not done yet and it’s an ongoing project. Phase two is in progress and is about the full site editing with widgets and navigation block and that was it. Right? Widgets, navigation and you can follow along with the experimental settings on the Gutenberg plugin on those projects. And then phase three is better collaboration with additional tools for multi-user editing, and phase four is multi-language editing in Gutenberg. So it was…
Mark Uraine: I’ll just jump in there real quick.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.
Mark Uraine: You know, I’ve always thought that I’m kind of helping out here with phase two, but phase one, yeah. It’s a lot of what we’ve been doing, all the tightening up work that’s been going on in Gutenberg has really been contributing back to phase one and making that experience better. And we saw this in one of the slides that Matt showed in State of the Word was a tweet about how someone who was really opposed to Gutenberg came back to it after all these months and saw the improvements and was just amazed. And it was really like a block that a new block that’s now in Gutenberg. I think it was either the cover block or the group block, I forget which one. But that kind of attracted the user and so they came in and tried it out again and they were, they loved it. And one thing I know Matt kind of definitely shares is that these blocks are really the way in which we’re going to get new users adopting WordPress and get them into WordPress easier. Because as long as we keep offering really fresh blocks that people want, people are going to come and you know, get their hands on it.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. So true. And then in the last Q&A, Matt was asked about how much of Gutenberg has been accomplished right now. And he said that we’re about 20% there. He estimates it’s a 10-year project and every year we chip away on 10% of what we, what the other team wants to accomplish with WordPress and the blog editor.
Mark Uraine: Now last year we were at 10% now we’re at 20%.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.
Mark Uraine: It’s a slow process, but lots of just really cool things happening still.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Indeed. Yeah. So there was a lot more in the State of the Word and they were two recap hosts already available and we will…so Justin Tadlock of the WP Tavern Wrote, “All Roads Lead to the Block Editor” and Brian Krogsgard of Post Status posted Matt Mullenweg’s State of the Word 2019. Since Monday of this week, and we record this on Wednesday, November 6, since Monday, the State of the Word in full as well as the Q&A, are available on WordPress TV, and all four links will be available in our show notes on the Gutenbergtimes.com/podcast, and this is episode number 9.
Mark Uraine: Yeah, so speaking about Matt’s slides, we actually built those in Gutenberg as you all saw, you know that that was kind of a neat mic drop moment when Matt kind of said “Oh and by the way,” and then pulled out of the slide show to show Gutenberg behind the scenes with all slides inside. And what made that possible was a plugin developed by Ella van Durpe called Slide, and it’s in the wordpress.org plugin directory. We’ll have a link for that in the show notes as well, but Ella was fantastic at really just helping us along the way with the design and any features that we kind of needed here and there. She was so quick to develop them and get them into the plugin so that we can keep moving forward with this and build something that was both visually pleasing and still kind of like did the things that we needed it to do.
And there were several designers involved, mention a few Tammie, Mel and Enrique and some others that people were helping to form the story and trying to kind of bring it all together to help Matt and everything just goes super smooth. But because of that, also, I spent a lot of my time kind of working on those slides over the weekend, and I didn’t really get to see the talks that I kind of wanted to go see or mingle with some of the people I would have liked to. But I’m looking forward to seeing those talks when they’re published up on WordPress TV and catch up on everything that happened.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I really want to test out Ella van Durpe’s plugin now for some of the work and presentations I do. Then, Google was one of the Four Diamond sponsors at WordCamp US together with Bluehost and Jetpack and WooCommerce.
Mark Uraine: Yeah.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: And they brought the teams around Newspack, SiteKit and the AMP Plugin to WordCamp US, and you could talk to them and learn more about those and the new version of the AMP Plugin includes an also an updated version of the AMP stories feature that we talked about in summer and you, dear listeners, should check it out. You can get started with a tutorial that was published by Heart Internet earlier this year, and we will also schedule another live Q&A with the AMP team and beta testers in a couple of months. One of my personal highlights, apart from meeting Mark Uraine for the first time, I also met the UX Experts, Kathy Bosco and Jackie D’Elia in person and we geeked out about the AMP stories.
I think, we theorized that because all three of us are photographers, we really appreciate the best mobile user experience to show our photos and the work. So, that was just one of the things that I remember in terms of Gutenberg-related things from the sponsors.
Mark Uraine: Have you had a chance to really dig into that SiteKit at all?
Birgit Pauli-Haack: I did a little bit. I met Renee Johnson who’s a part of the team and she…last year on Contributor Day, she actually worked on the Lighthouse but now she is the user and tutorial person for SiteKit and she told me that it was just released on a day or so before boot camp, so I didn’t get to check it out. But it is a combination to have all the Google services like analytics and search console right in your website instead of going to two different sites and get all that.
So it seems to be quite a good tool to have for publishers, therefore bloggers that’ll want to dig into a little bit more into keywords and see for which keywords they rank higher, and then produce a little bit more for that. Part of it is also, the ranking of posts, so there’s quite a few things to dig in, then when I get my head out of Gutenberg, I might do that. So, at WordCamp US there was also on Sunday, the Contributor Day and the news there is that documentation, Gutenberg Documentation, has two new graphs. One for the developer documentation on Paul Barthmeier. I’m signed up for that and volunteers to kind of lead that effort a bit, and I agreed to take part in the end user documentation and coordinating the writing of that. I also onboarded Jamie Wedholm, who started to go through the current documentation of the blocks and list the missing information and screenshots that we need to add. So we’re in triage mode right now, but we will start producing additional documentation later this month.
There’s really a lot of catch-up to be done because the last time somebody touched that was in February, 2019 at WordCamp Nordic when the first…there were three months after the first version of Gutenberg came into Core, but it was before 5.2, and now 5.3 is coming out. So it’s really, it would be helpful to have that updated because people want some people read documentation first before they get into it and they really like it when the screens are the same when they see it. So, shout out to Paul to step up on that because that’s definitely a huge field as well and you need to be a lot more technical than I am, but I’m happy with end user documentation to do that. All right. And you have been busy at the Contributor Day, Mark?
Mark Uraine: Yeah, I got to lead the testing table this year and I’d never really contributed on the testing side of things before. Well, officially, I guess at a Contributor Day, right? I’m doing, running Gutenberg tests every week this year. So, but yeah, I got asked to help out there and it was a fun table to lead. Everybody that came to the table, I just did not know what to expect. There was a good turnout of people. They were all willing and flexible and kind of what they wanted to help do and some more a little more tech savvy than others. So, we actually created two new usability testing scripts for Gutenberg that I’m going to try out in the near future here, and we also tested out and validated about 15 different issues for Gutenberg, which was very helpful. In fact, I need to go remove the “Needs Testing” label from all those right now, but it was such a good experience that I really think in future Contributor Days, if I’m not a part of the testing table, I’ll definitely make my rounds over there and see what everybody’s doing.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: So, that was mostly usability testing? It was not code testing?
Mark Uraine: Correct. That’s actually very important to clarify there and I’m glad you did so because I wasn’t being so clear when I was talking to all the people at the testing table, and some of them were very worried that this was about doing code testing. I did clarify that right away. That was all usability testing that we had to do. And it was amazing. You know how difficult it is on Contributor Day to get new people set up with a testing environment of a local install of WordPress. All the people at our table got set up with a local environment and were testing things. It was just fantastic. That’s just unheard of.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah, getting started right away. That is really…so what tests do you use? The WordPress development environment?
Mark Uraine: Yeah. Yeah. The one that, yeah, we did and we set up on Docker and everything and the process, while it was a bit confusing at first, we followed the guidelines and the documentation and were able to get up and running pretty good.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And that brings us to two announcements that we’re going to have.
Mark Uraine: OK, yeah, we’ve actually got one, a post from Matias Ventura, right? He posted a call for joining the discussion on the next parts of Gutenberg, which include full site editing and block patterns. The goal of this post was that while Matt was mentioning full site editing in the State of the Word, this post would be live and be an obvious place for people to kind of come to and learn the How and Where to get involved. So, that’s up there on the Make/Core blog on WordPress.org.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: And the link is, of course, in the show notes and it’s that time of the development stage where a lot of opinions and input are actually wanted to also discuss the big, broad topics to then narrow down for development. But it’s a good time to get involved in that.
Mark Uraine: For sure.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Another announcement is that content creators will appeal this Friday in the live Q&A, and we will discuss their journey and you mentioned it earlier from classic editor to the block editor and why their lives got easier. And there could be quite a few technical reasons to delay the migration to the block editor, but it really depends on your team at the complexity of the website and the plugins stack, if it’s possible. But most small businesses, bloggers or nonprofits don’t have any high hurdles except maybe give it a couple of hours to find your way around, and then explore the huge increase in features and layouts. You can build with a developer or a designer–without a developer and a designer. So the live Q&A will be already recorded when this podcast comes out on Saturday. So, I will put the link in the show notes as well so you can watch us talk about this, and we will have Laura Christiano, Ben Townsend and Sarah Pressler who are either writers or work for an agency on content side, or are agency owners, and they talk about their own journey and what their clients are going to do.
Yeah, that sounds great to hear from their clients’ perspective, kind of how they envision. That is a big concern for people out there, right? I see that all the time about, you know, I think there was even a concern at the Q&A during State of the Word about updating all this person sites, like what are their clients and having to train their clients or something.
Yeah. In that Q&A came actually up a nice suggestion to maybe have a bulk migration tool that will go back to thousands and thousands of blog posts to make them Gutenberg ready. But, it also shows that people think that if you order Gutenberg, it will change your site, which is actually not happening. So Gutenberg does not touch your old content. Only when you open it up to edit it, you can decide if you wanted to edit in Gutenberg or in the classic editor.
Mark Uraine: There’s like a person who has a site with thousands of posts, right? Updating the Gutenberg isn’t going to affect any of those as long as you just leave them as is, right? And when you’re ready you can open them up in Gutenberg and you can, and it still gives you the classic editor block, right? So they’re still in like a classic editor. And you could pull sections out into Gutenberg blocks or conform, convert all the blocks if you want. Yeah, there’s a gradual progression, right? Just upgrading the Gutenberg isn’t going to necessarily destroy all the posts that you have.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. It doesn’t do it at all. And quite a few sites that I see actually do a hybrid that some of the post types are still in classic editor and the blog post are still in Gutenburg…but we will hear quite a few more scenarios from our guests at the live Q&A on Friday. Which brings us to our community contribution, and the first up is Marcus Kazmierczak who wrote a post on October 29th guiding through the process of creating your first PR. It’s titled, “Good First Issue on Gutenberg,” so if you want to contribute and want to really have a good tutorial on how to do this, follow that link of Marcus. Marcus also is the one who created some of the tutorials in the developer documentation, so he’s quite the educator in that and is very detailed and thorough on that.
Jeffrey Carandang tweeted earlier this week and he had a GIF to show that he started using WordPress components outside the Gutenberg editor and he says, “It feels really amazing and very convenient. I’m pretty sure ‘Settings API’ for creating options pages will be replaced by these components as well.” So, he used the WordPress components in his EditorKit settings pages. There’s a hope that Jeffrey writes us a tutorial on how to use those WordPress scripts in a plugin admin page.
Mark Uraine: That is so cool. I love just checking out those GIFS on Twitter there. Jeffrey is doing such a good job with this and really paving the way for WordPress components and placing that confidence in using these components for plugin developers and theme developers and you know, using it for his plugin settings. It’s fantastic.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Jeffrey’s quite focused on Gutenberg and pushing the borders or the boundaries quite a bit.
Mark Uraine: He’s always so good, too, about when someone has an issue on GitHub and they’re posting Gutenberg, he’s right there, and especially when the conversation might be really debating the issue, but he sees it that it could benefit someone. He gets it into his plugin right away. I love that about him because that’s some of those issues or some of those requests, feature requests, that’s exactly where they need to go, right? They may not be ready for Core quite yet, but they could be included in a plugin. And so he does that. We also have, let’s see, something about the media library that came up recently. You know, if you remember the not so long ago accessibility audit about Gutenberg pointed out several issues that kind of related to the media library. So the media library, while that’s kind of been on top of mind for people in the community lately, and there’s a lot of desire to kind of keep moving forward and improving accessibility there, and then even to go further with just the UI and UX interactions with the media library.
A lot of work has been done and actually being merged into Core for 5.3 as well. But Rik Schennink dove into something interesting, some interesting interactions and a tweet that he shared where he syncs the media library with Doka. I’m not familiar with Doka myself but, and it doesn’t look, it’s not open source. You need a license to use it. But he was doing some explorations by just syncing it with the media library and editing the photo like cropping, and Doka provides a few other tools that looked very interesting and it would do it, edit the image, and save it in the media library and yeah, we’ll share that tweet in the show notes as well, which is really cool exploration. So for people just trying things out there.
Another one that recently came to my view was Qubely by Themeum.com. This is a plugin for Gutenberg blocks. As we’re kind of exploring the block patterns in Gutenberg and kind of the UI to use these block patterns within this system, we definitely keep exploring all sorts of options that other people out there developing and building, and Qubely has something that’s quite interesting as well. You know they, they include a button in the top toolbar, says something like add layout and you click it, and then you get a full-size modal that you can kind of go sift through and pick some layouts and add it to your page. And these are all Gutenberg-friendly blocks.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that sounds awesome. Shout out to Themeum. They were also a sponsor of WordCamp US, a gold sponsor, that’s one of the highest levels there. So, thank you for doing that and providing the funding for WordCamp US. So with this, we come to our “What’s Released” section of our podcast. So, WordPress 5.3 release candidate four was released on Tuesday and as the final release is scheduled for next Tuesday, November 12th, so I think that is the last release candidate. We will have the WordPress 5.3 Field Guide, again, link in our show notes so you can catch up on the myriad of new things that come with WordPress 5.3.
Gutenberg Release 6.8
Mark Uraine: Yeah. So Gutenberg, you know, 6.8 was released. Some of the regression bug fixes made it into our C4 for 5.3 as we were talking about here. And so, yeah, Birgit, let’s go through all of the things. So, the features, there was a support for gradients in the cover block. I tell you, Birgit, I see gradients all over the place now. It’s like gradient is everywhere. People love this stuff. And I love it too. So George keeps pushing away at a lot of these things and other people are getting involved as well. It’s like rainbows everywhere. So there’s also… [crosstalk 00:23:44]
Birgit Pauli-Haack: It’s kind of in an art movement there was kind of, “Oh there’s Renaissance and that’s very plain.” And then there is Barack and that’s very ornamental, and then there’s classic again and [crosstalk 00:23:57] it’s kind of a pendulum and right now, gradient, it makes so much more rich visuals than just a material designed with four colors kind of thing.
Mark Uraine: And I’ll tell you with all this introduction, and how many people like just love these gradients where there’s a lot of talk about or a lot of discussions happening and work being done to kind of improve WP admin in WordPress. And one of those things we’re going to be seeing in 5.3 are these new buttons and colors and the shapes vary a little bit. They’re a little bit flatter and I don’t know, maybe we should just make them gradient buttons. They’re too flat right now. Maybe throw in some gradients and get some 3D effects on those. Swing that pendulum back like you said, you know. So, there was also another feature for breadcrumb bar now in the bottom of Gutenberg that kind of gives you block hierarchy links so that you can kind of use that breadcrumb to link through the blocks if you’d like as well. It’s kind of a nice addition.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that’s really helpful for multiple nested sections so you can go from the outside to the inside and outside again…it’s easier to point to it than in the borders around the blocks. I think it’s an interesting way to solve that.
Mark Uraine: Yeah, and it’s done in a mental way at the bottom so it’s not going to interfere with a lot of things, right? There is the block navigator, which we have, you know, but you kind of have to click a button to open up a popover and then click through to your block that you want, right? So it involved a few more clicks and it was kind of hidden. It’s there but it’s minimal. So, there were also lots of enhancements. Of course, a couple of them having to do with gradients because the cover block, they changed the minimum height input step size to one. Okay. So, changing the minimum height input, step size, see there’s allow setting the display name for blocks in the block navigator, which is really cool because now when you open up that block navigator, you don’t just see paragraph, paragraph, paragraph or heading, heading, heading, you know, you can actually have a display name for those blocks, and it helps you identify which blocks are which in the navigator.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Very helpful.
Mark Uraine: Let’s see, there’s another one to preserve list attributes when pasting and converting HTML to blocks, like start, type and reversed and quite a bit coming in with a 6.8 right?
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And of course, it also, you mentioned it before, it comes with quite a few fixes for the bugs. So the link component has a few touch-ups and the column blocks had overflow issues, which are now fixed. The [inaudible 00:26:44] moved to the theme editor styles, the media, Oh, that’s a nice word. And I think makes every German proud. It’s the media model edit image back button. It’s one word. We would do it in one word but in English it’s 16 words. So that was fixed that it doesn’t run into a blank page anymore. Then there was the formatting of strike-through. Strike-through is now also available on Safari when you paste it from Google docs, and then finally, one of the final bugs was that the local storage, which was introduced in 6.6 I think, that helps you with retaining your content when you have interruptions on your internet connection or for whatever reasons, so it stores the content in your browser that is actually cleared when you have a successful save of the whole page or post, which there was always a residue there.
The release also has some updates on the experiments that Matt Mullenweg mentioned in the State of the Word, and one is for the navigation block there is a support for color customization and an improved link editing UI, so the menu items that you put in on your page that you have a better handle on them. And then for the blog content areas, there is a front-end template loader and implemented that is based on the custom post type and the temporary UI to edit that template. And also we finally get a site title block, but it’s also in the experiments, don’t use that at home or in production, and you can experiment with each one of them separately in the plugin. So there’s an experiment settings page now on the Gutenberg in your menu and then you can go there and then switch some on. The documentation is still a little sparse, and I believe there will be some blog posts coming out on how they actually supposed to be working.
Mark Uraine: Yeah, that’s for sure. We talked about it in the design meeting on Slack today. Someone brought up though it might be nice to have some links to these experiments and kind of where the discussions are going on about them and another person brought up–yeah, let’s include the experiments stuff in a blog post and so that should be coming shortly on the make/core blog probably.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: I also had the feeling that there are a few things that need to happen on the theme or in the theme code at some places to make those work, for instance, if you want to test the block areas and you need to include them somewhere in the theme, so it’s not just the switching on part of the plugin, you also need to kind of modify some of it.
Mark Uraine: That’s true. If you want to fiddle with those widget block areas, right. Well, you need a theme that kind of has widget areas that can be defined. Yeah. And along with that release there were also about seven various API improvements which can be further investigated. But touching on a few, there was like a visually hidden component, a base styles package, block platform component, experimental dimension control components, and just lots of good stuff there. And under the various category, lots of storybook stuff happening there everybody. And if you aren’t familiar with storybook, just a reminder, that storybook is a way to visualize the components, and just by pulling from the component documentation and code and to display them visually in one area where you can kind of click through all the WordPress components, see what they look like, view the code, how they’re implemented so you can copy it and edit it however you’d like. So this is really cool.
Each component I believe is called a story. So lots have been added. While we have a lot of WordPress components, we don’t have each one built out in storybook yet, so a lot of work has been put there like the checkbox control, the dash icons, color palette, the color picker, external link component. And then there are other various components that got improvements, like the color indicator story I that has added knobs to that other enhancements to other stories as well. And there’s some cleanups around end to end testing, reorganizing the test specs and refactoring some code quality, some of the code around a few blocks and improving the code quality there. So really good stuff.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, documentation has a few. So the good workflow documentation has been enhanced. And then also some clarification about block naming conventions and the usual tweaks and typos fixes on the documentation. Yes. So that was the rundown of Gutenberg 6.8 now available in the plugin repository for you. What is in active development, do we have anything that we haven’t mentioned yet.
Mark Uraine: So we do, we do. There is a recent issue created maybe just today by Enrique Viqueras who created an issue 18291 in Gutenberg for full site editing design. This issue, he kind of lays out some of his thoughts, shares some of his sketches that he had, and I got to talk to him about this a little bit at WordCamp US. Really creative thinking and now we just kind of, he kind of pinpoints all the areas in which this full site editing meets design work to happen. A lot of the development on it is coming to a point where design thinking and design implementation is really needed. So that’s going to be one of the major focuses for us right now. We need to put, like rally the contributors, get them here and focused on full site editing.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, and that’s definitely for those people who found Matias Ventura’s full page editing host that he published a month or two ago. A little theoretical, really gets down to let’s look at some of the details and what are the issues with that and how do we have to approach them. So I really like this. I’m actually met Enrique Viqueras on the Get Involved table in the sponsor hall so I’m happy about that. And Andrew’s back from his sabbatical. So, it’s always good to see the teams once a year or so.
Mark Uraine: Sure, sure. And for those of you not familiar with those names, those are some of the developers who are contributing to Gutenberg full time.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: The developers of the first hour. So, but this was it. That’s our show for today. As always, we have to show notes on Gutenbergtimes.com/podcast and if you have questions or suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to email@example.com, that’s firstname.lastname@example.org, or ping us on Twitter. We’re both on Twitter.
Thank you for listening and goodbye. And if you like what we do, please leave a review on iTunes. We will write a little tutorial on how to do this before we do the next one. Go to iTunes and leave a review. That’s the way that this podcast will spread around some more. Thank you for listening and goodbye.
Mark Uraine: Thank you everybody. Have a great week. Keep contributing.
Birgit Pauli-Haack: Take care. Bye bye.